DIVINECOWGURL

Interview -Steven Logan | Photos - Shea Petersen

Divinecowgurl’s vocal delivery is full of whispers, moans, and growls - it feels tangible and physical. It tracks for the multidisciplinary artist for whom music is just one artistic practice among painting and fashion. We talked her move from Dallas to Chicago, her history with doll collecting, and the evolution of her album OOAK: Art Doll.

What was it like for you growing up in Texas? Born and raised?
Born and raised. It was difficult growing up there as a queer person- it was not easy. 

One thing I love about Texas is the culture and the community. I'm from a neighborhood that is predominantly all Mexican, so we have a very strong Mexican community there. The food was good. The food, the glamour, everything about Texas is gorgeous in that part. But being like the only trans person was scary. I'd be afraid to leave my house at some points.

Were you already starting to think about the Divinecowgurl project when you were in Texas?
Yes. When I started this, this was kind of my access to femininity. It felt like it was my gateway to my womanhood, and it was my safe space. So I was able to be loud, I was able to be raunchy, I could say whatever I wanted, and I was creating this world where my femininity was being embraced.

How early was it when you started on this pop journey?
I was 15 when I started producing, and I was making, like, the most scary construction noise music. I was writing a lot about Zooey Deschanel, actually…I love her bangs. All of my stuff early on was very comedic, and what I thought was glamorous but maybe is not so glamorous to everybody. 

So when did you move to Chicago?
I moved to Chicago three years ago now.

And what prompted that? Specifically Chicago. It sounds like you probably wanted to get out of Texas in general, but why Chicago?
I have online friends here that I met on Minecraft when I was young, and so I had to come visit them. I stayed for a week, and, I don't know, something about Chicago is just so gorgeous. Like the community, the summers in Chicago, it’s so queer here. And there's a really strong art scene, and I just fell in love with that. I fell in love with the community. I grew up so isolated. So when I came to Chicago, everyone was embracing each other, like “Hey, can you help me with this song? Hey, can you help me mix this or how do I do this?” And, that's beautiful.

And that doesn't really exist in Dallas that you know of?
I don't know how it is now. But definitely when I was growing up, nothing too queer, like there weren't a lot of people that were like, “Oh, she's a trans girl, and she's owning it, and she's making cunty music.”

So how did you come up with the name Divinecowgurl? What does that mean to you?
It’s my Minecraft name. Don't have that account anymore, but, “Divine” is from the drag queen and “Cowgurl”, because I'm from Texas.

Are you still into Minecraft?
Oh yeah. I need an indica gummy with some Minecraft, and then like turn the volume on Minecraft off, and put on the Silent Hill 2 soundtrack.

So you said you started producing when you were 15 - when was the first time you actually released a song to the public? And what was that song?
Shoot, I don't know. Probably, I made an EP called Doll Domination. And the title track of that started to get, not big or anything, but in the small, like Internet queer scene, people started to listen. 

And I was like, “Wait, like, can I do this? And really try to take myself more seriously?” I feel like for a long time, I was doing this for me and just to have fun and to feel comfortable with myself. Doll Domination came out and it gave me the confidence to keep making music and pushing myself.

And that’s when it changed from being just a creative outlet to a full-blown artistic project.
Yeah, definitely. That song was very pivotal to me. I am a visual artist, I’m a painter - that's what I always assumed I would go into, that would be my primary artistic expression. 

But music kind of came out of left field, and it was kind of everything that I love, like glam, music, photography. There's so much multimedia in that compared to painting. So now painting is like my own personal thing.

They kind of switched.
They kind of switched.

What’s your process then when you're creating a song?
When I start making music, I need to  work on the production first. So usually I'm just kind of playing around with pads and I do chords first, and then I figure out percussion and all that. But making music to me is intimate, no matter the subject I'm talking about or whatever.

Music is an intimate practice for me, and I get really into it. My friends know, like I have my lighting dim, I'm in my little leopard print swivel chair, and I put a heel on, maybe a wig, and I just feel it in my soul.

So has there ever been a time when it was lyrics first, or do lyrics always follow the soundscape and the vibe?
Sometimes I make a beat and I write to it, but then I'm like, “Okay, I'm gonna totally scrap this beat and make this something different.” So in that case I’d already have all the lyrics or most of them, and then create a new beat to go with the lyrics.

How do you translate the vibe in your head into the soundscape and the chords? Is that something you can even explain?
In my music, I'm very focused on tone and then the underlying emotions of a song. I feel like a song has a soul. It's…it's a creative being. It's its own thing. Am I trying to be really cunty? Am I trying to be super sexy? Am I trying to be emotional? I'll start with that tone and energy and that's how I'll get into my production.

Are there themes that you find yourself coming back to, or even lyrical phrases you find yourself coming back to?
Yeah...I tend to be a little nasty on the track. 

And, right now I'm definitely trying to push my writing capabilities, and I'm working on new music right now, and I've changed my perspective a little bit, but all the music I've been making right now, it's just been fun and really light hearted and I'm just like…let me just be nasty on the track. I'm not scared to be a little rough. I'm not scared to push it.

Have you ever been nervous to put anything out for subject matter reasons?
I guess a little bit, but, like, it is what it is. I'm not afraid to put anything out if I feel passionate about it.

So have you ever worked with other producers or songwriters or is it always your own thing?
I’m usually only working by myself. So I'm writing, I'm mixing and mastering, I'm producing. And usually that's like, that's my time. But right now, I'm trying to work with other producers and other writers and be more collaborative. I don't know, I just feel like that would help round me out as an artist. I'm so used to just listening to myself, and I’m trying to figure out what I can learn from other artists that will help my art.

You’ve had featured artists on your songs and you featured on other artist’s songs. What is that process like then? Because when you do have your process being so, like you said, intimate - what is it like when you do work with other collaborators?
It depends. Early on, I was just collaborating on the Internet, if someone asked me to get on a beat or a remix or something, I would do it. Now after the album. I'm definitely looking at collaborations. I can't just have an intimate moment with the song separate from the other artist, so I'm trying to learn how to work with other people, but I'm just so specific and I know what I want and I know I can execute it. I'm trying to kill that ego.

What were your biggest musical influences in the Divinecowgurl project? What music artists inspire you and what do you pull from them?
The people that made me realize I could make music…definitely Sophie and Arca. Like, I can't not give them their 10s. Discovering both of their music was definitely a moment for me, seeing them making music and they were not afraid of embracing their transness.

So definitely them for production and stuff, but I'm also really inspired by Cupcakke, and I love Junglepussy so much. Lil Kim. And Gaga. 

So I can definitely tell there's a lot of influence from those rappers like Cupcakke and Junglepussy who have those strong punchlines, very funny. And you have a lot of lyrics that are very funny. Have you always had that sense of humor? 
Yeah, I’ve always been I think a funny person and I like to be lighthearted. That's why I really love those artists. And the thing about those artists is that they're not just making a certain type of song, both of their discographies have such range. Having that vulnerability and then being able to be super comedic and lighthearted about a situation, I think is beautiful. I feel like a lot of people take everything too seriously.

So tell me about the album.
My baby. So my album, One Of a Kind: Art Doll,the deluxe version, came out in February. And then the album came out last June. I was having fun. I told myself I needed to put out a body of work. There's not really a huge concept where everything goes together like a cohesive story. It was more like creating what I felt was right in the moment.

And I called it OOAK: Art Doll, because in the doll customization community, when you customize or alter a doll and sell it secondhand - like on Etsy, eBay, whatever - you'll put like “OOAK Art Doll” with it. It’s about creating something from scratch.

Yeah. I was going to ask about the title.
It's a doll collecting thing. I had a couple titles for it, but I just thought that fit. I’'m a big doll collector.

How many do you have?
I just downsized. I think in total, I have maybe, like, 130. And I feel like that's small.

That's small for doll collectors?
In the doll collecting community. I've been collecting forever, though. I was very Type A as a kid.

Are they all in your apartment? Where do you keep them all? 
All in my apartment. My apartment is my safe space. All my dolls are there, I'm very introverted. That’s also like a separate creative outlet, but that I try to keep to myself. 

So OOAK: Art Doll is the deluxe version of the album. There was the original version that you pulled off streaming. Do you want to talk about why?
We can talk about it. I can be very irritating, because I had the album out and I was performing it, and it just wasn’t what I wanted it to be.  It just didn’t click in my brain. So it was like, “I want this done, take it down.”

And then I literally re-created the whole album right after that. And I feel like I made everything more flowy, sonically, and less spooky. And it still gives grimy, and it still gets a little beep-boop. But the original was definitely more rough than the new version.

So you talked about being a visual artist. I knew about your sketching, drawing, painting, but now learning about the doll customization - what is the overlap in that creative process with your music? Or do they feel totally separate?
When I was building a portfolio to apply to art school and I was learning all my basics, it was about shape, color and form. And then slowly everything would kind of come together. You're kind of viewing everything as light shadows, you're blocking everything with color. It’s almost like you're sculpting. And I kind of go into the music process the same way. I don't feel like I'm making something. I'm sculpting something slowly and then we see what the finished product is.

So, did you end up going to art school?
No, I didn't go to art school. I think in the long term, that was the best thing.

I feel like if I had went to art school, all of my artistic development would have been stunted. I’d have to learn the basics again, square one, how do I be an artist? And, in art school they teach you the basics, yes, but it’s also like you need to have an artistic identity. And I wasn’t able to do that because that shit’s expensive.

But I trust myself. And when I let myself fully trusted myself artistically in every aspect, not just drawing, but music, outfits, styling, hair, makeup, everything started to kind of fall into place and feels like me. But I had went to art school, that would have been like a whole arc in the future.

What inspires your sense of fashion and styling?
Bratz Dolls. I love to restyle them. In Dallas, one thing to, like, soothe me or regulate my emotions was getting all my doll outfits out and putting together pieces. And then I realized, like, wait, I'm literally the doll. I'm the doll. Like, I can just do this on me.

Is there anything else that inspires you artistically that we haven't talked about that people may not expect? 
I also get a lot of inspiration from, like, ambient music. That’s my thing right now. I'm trying to make really cunty music, but have it also be kind of soothing. But still have that grit to it. 

Also anime, I love anime. I'm watching JoJo's Bizarre Adventure right now. And the fashion! I thought I was going to like it because it's like action, I don't really like that. But the creator is really big into fashion, like all the outfits and poses are fashion-based. I think that's really been inspiring me right now. 

I also like sci-fi movies. I love Alien, Godzilla - that inspires my music and my art, but in an interesting way where I feel like there’s dimensions to my music that I can trace back and see, “This is from that, this comes from that.”

I totally get it. And not to go on a tangent because I love Alien, but there’s an atmospheric, ambient feel to that movie where it's just like a shot of just an empty hallway on the spaceship and water dripping…
Gorgeous. That whole movie is so good. When I redid the whole album, I wanted more of that atmospheric, a little bit more wet sounding, but not a polished wet sound. It’s wet, but it’s like you’re in a cave and there’s mud on your cheek.

So what's your favorite song that you've ever made? 
“3verything’. I love both versions. Every version of that song.

Why that one?
It kind of represents where I'm at artistically. It's just kind of like,”This is just me. This is Divinecowgurl right now.” And it makes me feel cunty. All my other songs are more conceptual but “3verything” is just like “I’m a bad bitch, I’m hot as fuck and I’m gonna talk my shit.”

When did you start performing live in Chicago?
My first gig was with Chillona, she and I hung out and she was putting together a show. And she was a person who really inspired me as a live performer. I look up to her a lot. And that gig was my first one. 

How did it go for you? Were you nervous?
I was definitely nervous. I don't know, I feel like my music, depending on the audience, can be a hit or miss, which is fine. But everyone loved it. It gave me confidence to keep going. I felt like I was being supported, and I felt like I was being seen.

What has been your favorite performance moment that you've had since you started? 
The one I did at Sleeping Village most recently. I had the most fun. I felt confident in my look, the lighting…I feel like I'm a baby live performer. I'm still trying to figure out what I like, what I don't like. Everything else behind the scenes with my music I trust myself, and I’m trying to get there with live performance, and I feel like that Sleeping Village show was definitely a big moment. Also, Metro was a huge moment for me. I was like, “Okay, let’s put on a 40-inch wig and get to work.” I felt like a star.

Do you want to tease anything about what you have coming up this summer?
Well, I have like…the bow on the present for One Of a Kind: Art Doll. I have a little visual album coming up for that. And then, I'm going to be re-releasing some of the original versions of the songs. Definitely “3verything”, and I won’t say anything else. Stay tuned.

What do you want people to take away from your music when they listen to it?
I just want to make them feel like…just queer and gay and trans and like…pussy! Whenever I go see a drag show or when I’m listening to Drag Race music from like 2014-2018…I didn't talk about this in my music inspo, but that music when they’re being nasty bitches and like…

And not subtle.
And not subtle. I just want that for the listener. To feel super queer and faggy. And trans.